1. Romansbildung

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This book functioned in some ways as a Bildungsroman, a novel about the gradual, perhaps episodic, development of a young person, morally, spiritually, and psychologically. Quite often, this young person grows into society, accepting a role as an adult (or near adult), with its attendant responsibilities and opportunities.

Casiopea's development is not straightforward. Her development moves away from the social traditions of her small town. Does she develop toward the faster, more modern society she encounters on her journey? Or is there even something more different about her development? At the end of the novel she is riding around in a stolen car with a demon. That doesn't seem to be quite the same thing as having grown into the "modern" society she to which she has become exposed during her journey.

Hun-Kamé develops, too. While not a young person, taking on some of Casiopea's mortality changes him at each stage of the journey, and, at the end, he retains a tiny portion of his human heart, changing Xibalba in a small way, too. We don't know whether this change will last, but our story ends with that change.

What are your thoughts on this theme of moral, spiritual, and psychological development regarding both Casiopea and Hun-Kamé? Were their changes believable? Relatable (insofar as a god can be relatable)?

Comments

  • 1

    So, overall this novel reminded me very much of American Gods - less adept, but it had its moments. The characters and their motives were rather simplistic, I thought - especially the cousin, though he did develop into someone more interesting toward the end.

    I'm not so sure this as a Bildungsroman, though. I guess my model for that type of novel is Herman Hesse's Narcissus and Goldmund, where the characters make their way out into the world and grow up by virtue of their interaction with it. In this novel, Casiopea changes - but does she really grow up? She seemed rather mature at the beginning - more than her cousin, maybe more than her mother. Does she change by virtue of her interaction with the wider world, or merely by her association with Hun-Kame and his quest?

    As for the changes, I found them believable in so far as that goes. I didn't really find certain aspects of this novel very believable (like the meeting of Casiopeia and Hun-Kame, or his presence in the chest to begin with) so my ability to believe was always tainted by this deus-ex-machina. But, you know - could I beleive that Casiopaea became more worldly (otherworldly?), that Hun-Kame became more human? That Martin could become more of himself and less of his father? Yes, I can believe those things.

  • 0

    Sometime I must read American Gods, but I haven't had that pleasure yet.

    What I thought was done well here was Casiopeia's constant, and IMHO credible, vacillation between two poles:
    a) the constraints of her upbringing, poised uncomfortably between the moral pronouncements of the (unlikable) priest, the diverse aspirations of her parents, and the pressure of small-town life
    b) the liberty of her imaginative life, fuelled by the supernatural encounters with Hun-Kame and the rest

    The book stops before she makes any real irrevocable choice between these two - so it might be interesting to have a "ten years later" novel, in which we learn what she has done subsequently. Does she go off and live a life of wild hedonism? Become a witch? Go back to small town life and marry someone conventional? The final car drive with the demon suggests that the first two of these are more likely than the third, but we have seen a few switches of intention and action through the book, so I'm not ruling out #3. (Though it would feel a bit disappointing after all that she has experienced, unless the real story arc is one of progressive liberation through generations, and it's only her children or grandchildren that can really shake off the social constraints she grew up under)

  • 2

    A general point about the book. I think it was structurally well-crafted, with decent characters that changed throughout the book. Those changes were well-telegraphed in the text, were believable, and followed from the events in the story. Where I think it fell down was that the writing wasn't quite good enough to bring things to life.

    Casiopea grows from someone who is defined by what she's told to do, to someone who is able to make her own choices. Hun-Kamé changes by gaining some compassion. Mártin realises that he's a bully to make up for his weakness: perhaps he will grow in future. Overall, there's a message of growing beyond past wrongs and breaking out of cycles of abuse and revenge.

  • 1
    I think the growth element is the main characters not being defined by their past situations, and growing beyond them. So Casiopea goes from servitude, through another form of servitude, to freedom. Hun-Kame is not bound by the cycle of vengeance.

    This has lots in common with the Bildungsroman, but it doesn't feel *quite* the same to me. Maybe it's that at the end of the book, Casiopea hasn't just grown and come to terms with things - she's fundamentally changed. Not just in terms of her emotions, confidence, and situation - she can now practice necromancy and speak all languages. She's now a starting player character in a Liminal game.
  • 2

    @dr_mitch said:

    She's now a starting player character in a Liminal game.

    You mentioned this game in another thread, too. Not being familiar with it, I checked it out. So imagine my surprise when I discover a that you are its creator and author.

  • 3

    @WildCard said:

    @dr_mitch said:

    She's now a starting player character in a Liminal game.

    You mentioned this game in another thread, too. Not being familiar with it, I checked it out. So imagine my surprise when I discover a that you are its creator and author.

    He's utterly shameless! Can't resist a plug, our Doctor! ;)

  • 1

    @clash_bowley said:

    He's utterly shameless! Can't resist a plug, our Doctor! ;)

    I'm the anti-clash. ;)

  • 1

    @dr_mitch said:

    I'm the anti-clash. ;)

    I am sure if we touch it will be mutual annihilation! Good thing you are stuck on that wee island of yours! :D

  • 1
    I don’t know about that. You both still use underscores and no caps in your internet handles, like you’re still living in the days of bulletin board services.
  • 2

    @Apocryphal said:
    I don’t know about that. You both still use underscores and no caps in your internet handles, like you’re still living in the days of bulletin board services.

    Not at all! I live in the 32nd century and commute via delorean. Logins with underscores and no caps work better in multiple time periods, as I am sure the doctor would agree!

  • 1

    BBS’es were the best! Until they weren’t.

  • 1

    @WildCard said:
    BBS’es were the best! Until they weren’t.

    Hahahaha!

  • 0
    CamelCaps are TheBest, as many of us know...
  • 1

    @RichardAbbott said:
    CamelCaps are TheBest, as many of us know...

    Perhaps, but snake_case has_its_charms

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